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 Post subject: Jaguar V12 vs BMW V12
PostPosted: Thu 10. Jan 2008 03:58 
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Formúlubílstjóri
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Ég skiptist á nokkrum bréfum við einn gaur á Jaguar spjallinu og fékk nærri óumbeðið til baka skemmtilega samantekt frá honum um hvernig hann upplifir muninn á þessum 2 bílum. Hann hafði áður skrifað mér að honum finndist Jaguarinn kraftmeiri og þegar ég rukkaði hann um skýringar fékk ég þetta til baka.

Hann á bæði 12 cyl Jaguar svipaðan mínum og svo 750iL sem reyndar er búið að breyta fyrir LPG (eitthvað alternatíft eldsneyti þarna í Stóra-Bretlandi).

Simon Crozier wrote:
When i say more powerful i mean mid-gear etc you can feel the engine pulling harder in a drag race i think my money would still be on the BMW but you can tell its the gearbox making up the difference.

The BMW engine isnt stunningly more advanced that the Jag, its got bosch motoronic ECUs and it operates as two straight sixes :- so two dizzy, two maf two engines basically that just share a crank but neither of them even know that- right down to two fuel pumps. Then
there is a governor that sits above the two seperate ECUs and keeps them both in synch-ish. If you take the MAF off one side that bank shuts down and the other literally runs as a straight six with just a warning on the dash car will still toottle about till you get to the garage.

But bar the engine management there isn't alot you wouldn't recognize surprising really but just goes to show quite how advanced the Jag V12 actually was given it was designed 15 years earlier.

There is a noticeable down grade in performance when i swap to LPG becuase mine has an older style single point injection system (two point on for each maf but even they run separately after the heater) on LPG i'd reckon its down to about 240Bhp but some of thats also cos mine isnt calibrated properly at the min. But for the cost difference i just put the car gearbox in sport mode, set the cruise control - if its a short journey or i want the extra power i leave it on Petrol. Kinda like if the jag had a XJ6 <-> XJ12 button on the dash.

Jag is far and away a much, much nicer car but the BMW does have some interesting features that you wouldn't object to having on the jag...


Fyrsti pósturinn frá honum:
Simon Crozier wrote:
For reference the 5.0 liter BMW v12 is rated at 300bhp exactly the same as the jag. Alot of people say the jag isnt really knocking out the claimed 300bhp but my Jag's engine certainly feels slightly more powerful than the BMWs - mine is a 85HE with the AJ6 TTExtractor exhaust, AJ6 SuperEnhanced ECU, larger air intakes, standard inlet manifold and throttle body (hoping to upgrade that this year) - didnt' have Cats in the first place so the engine certainly have comparible power rating and i've not seen/felt anything in the either engine that would suggest vastly different torque ratings. I had done the Jaguars modification before i got the BMW so never got a chance to compare to the stock jag.

The later 750i went up in power and engine displacement and i believe they stuck with the same ZF transmission for the early runs and later upgraded to different ZF so if you *could* get the engine and gearbox to talk then it certainly sounds like it could take the standard Jag V12 power and still be reliable (mine is 200,000mls in and doesnt appear to have been rebuilt).


Ég nenni ekki að fletta upp spekkum á E32 bílnum en Jaguarinn er 1835kg, 5,3l SOHC V12, 24v álvél sem skilar á bilinu 265-295hö. Togið er um 430Nm, þriggja þrepa skipting.
Nánar um það hér: http://www.hugi.is/bilar/articles.php?p ... Id=1375081

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PostPosted: Thu 10. Jan 2008 07:21 
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hmmm... hefði haldið að M70 væri ,,öflugri vél

299 ps og 450 nm vs 280+ 430 nm

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PostPosted: Fri 11. Jan 2008 11:07 
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Alpina wrote:
hmmm... hefði haldið að M70 væri ,,öflugri vél

299 ps og 450 nm vs 280+ 430 nm

Hefði haldið það líka.

Helv. er ekkert hægt að æsa hneturnar upp?

:twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri 11. Jan 2008 11:39 
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kraftmeiri eður ei..



bmwinn fer þó í gang alla daga vikunar :tease:

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PostPosted: Fri 11. Jan 2008 13:05 
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aronisonfire wrote:
kraftmeiri eður ei..



bmwinn fer þó í gang alla daga vikunar :tease:


:lol: ef þú kemst inní hann já.

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PostPosted: Fri 11. Jan 2008 13:18 
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Hann segir það sjálfur að honum finnst þetta vera í gírkassanum
sem er akkúrat það sem ég myndi halda sama.

Ef einhver nennir að pósta gríhlutföllunum þá ætti það að sjást.
líklega þrengra á milli gíra í Jaginum og vélin líklega ofar í bandinu þegar hann er að gefa í. fyrir utan að jagginn er með aðeins stærri vél, pínu minna hámarkstog enn líklega lengra powerband.

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PostPosted: Fri 11. Jan 2008 13:30 
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gstuning wrote:
Hann segir það sjálfur að honum finnst þetta vera í gírkassanum
sem er akkúrat það sem ég myndi halda sama.

Ef einhver nennir að pósta gríhlutföllunum þá ætti það að sjást.
líklega þrengra á milli gíra í Jaginum og vélin líklega ofar í bandinu þegar hann er að gefa í. fyrir utan að jagginn er með aðeins stærri vél, pínu minna hámarkstog enn líklega lengra powerband.


Ratios:
4HP22 2.73 1.56 1.00 0.73 (BMW)
TH400 2.48 1.48 1.00 (Jaguar)
2.88 drif í Jaguar. Ég kann ekki að reikna :oops: en fyrsti er í ca 100, annar 160, þriðji rest.

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PostPosted: Fri 11. Jan 2008 16:35 
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þarf að græja nýja súrefnis skynjara, þá get ég hitt þig einhverstaðr og útkljáð málin

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PostPosted: Fri 11. Jan 2008 16:52 
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hverju sem tölum líður.. þá er annar

já nei..

ekkert :oops:

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